Nexus Clash

Pretty much as the title says.

I just want to live in the lake with my undines ok.

Hmm. Actually maybe this should be a suggestion rather than a bug. Can a mod help move it?

Would suggest extending this to anyone with 1AP movement on water (other than from Athleticism, probably).

Mechanically this makes water too good of a hiding place. This was way more relevant in earlier breaths where there were always very large areas of water. B5 is much different but it still is fairly relevant. And a change like this would have to be reverted if we went back to a design with large water areas.

Simulation-wise, I don't think athleticism makes sense for granting this ability, but I could see it for the Water Ele/water HC. It would then sap your MP regen however as you are expending magic to stay afloat. It would also need a demon to have the ability (WM? tentacle raft?) so everyone has opportunity to get murdered, not just neutral/evil elementalists.

but yeah probably just no

I guess I don’t really see how the general concern is worse than shadow wrapping in a random land square.

With athleticism traveling in water is no worse than on land. And then once fly is a thing ditto for that. You also cannot hide on water afaik (0% hide chance) so actually a fly-by is currently more effective at finding folks on the water than traveling over buildings to find folks.

I guess you could argue that folks can be invisible in water. But finding someone who was trying to hide in a random land square last breath was already impossible without EoD. Pretty much the same seems to hold for this breath as well.

At least with random land square there is a chance you can be found by enhanced senses walking by/demon tracker/etc. With water, there's nobody even looking. Maybe centrum water gets flown over sometimes, probably not Cordillera proper. Sure with the change there could possibly be people out there, but it's probably a water elementalist with a stack o pets, no thanks!

Also:

Fellis wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 3:14 am This was way more relevant in earlier breaths where there were always very large areas of water. And a change like this would have to be reverted if we went back to a design with large water areas.

I don’t necessarily agree. 5% hide chance squares are incredibly safe to hide in for the same reason. It has a 5% hide chance. Therefore folks without magical means to hide will not hide there. Therefore hunters don’t check those tiles. Sure there *could* be someone there but the chance is too small for hunter to bother walking over those squares.

But I guess in the grand scheme of things this is pretty minor. And balance-wise yea you’d probably want access to sleeping in water to be more common (similar to how any spell caster could learn shadow wrap). Petition for a mortal sailing skill I guess which assumes you are moving through water on a boat or whatever (maybe you need to be holding an inflatable raft or sth)

sekki wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 6:47 am I don’t necessarily agree. 5% hide chance squares are incredibly safe to hide in for the same reason. It has a 5% hide chance. Therefore folks without magical means to hide will not hide there. Therefore hunters don’t check those tiles. Sure there *could* be someone there but the chance is too small for hunter to bother walking over those squares.

This is true, but the amount of people with access to spellcraft is much larger than the amount of people who would have access to AP gen on water. There's also the point that the person who travels out into the grasslands has to travel back, water HC/Ele have 0AP movement (especially important for large ocean design). And unless you propose this ability cost CP instead of getting tacked on, it's not as comparable to a 20 CP spell.

way back i wanted to legitimize waterbreathing potion/spell(removed) and other such effects by enabling regular resource gen on water

maybe with laurentia's mega sea it wouldn't've been so nice (though you'd certainly be asking to die horribly to air+water hcs) but here it could probably pan out, for various reasons that are kind of convoluted to get into

but essentially something rarely inherent (only elem atm it seems which makes sense given they have so many outdoors-y mechanics) and generally prep/cp-based no different to ex.i/wrap and such

Fellis wrote: ↑Fri Dec 31, 2021 3:14 am I could see it for the Water Ele/water HC. It would then sap your MP regen however as you are expending magic to stay afloat.

An MP drain for Water Ele/NC to regain AP on ticks on water tiles looks like the best solution so far. Getting stuck out on a water tile when you're a a magical water person is a PITA and makes no sense, there should be a reasonable solution besides "yo, can someone come and kill me". A higher cost like 2MP or 3MP per AP tick to prevent people hiding out on water tiles may prevent this being abused.
I would extend the same solution to Exalted Harbingers getting stuck on void tiles and any other weird movement situations where this can happen.