Stronghold: Remove AP cost for placing/taking items from safe

[MrFrank]

A lot of AP costs have been removed like setting up targets, giving items to others etc making actions a lot smoother. I feel that AP for faction safe actions should be removed as well, it would make things convenient. You can already circumvent the AP costs to an extent (hand items to allies which can overflow into their footlocker, drop them on the floor and there is no longer the danger of them immediately disappearing on the next tick).

I don't know if there is any argument against or balance consideration for keeping the AP cost, best I can think of is that you could remove a whole bunch of potion or crafting comps for free in which case maybe only include AP cost for removing but not for placing items in the safe.

[Nayru]

already planned, nixing faction communication ap costs was the very minor version of what i was actually after

the ap costs may not be 0 when your fort is compromised though

[Meric]

Was building up the courage to post this.

+1 to no AP to take in / out of faction safe and footlocker

+1 to there being an AP cost when the ward is down.

Going from the frantic and free back and forth of item exchange in pseudoforts to the 1ap in, 1ap out of faction safes / footlockers literally feels like the gaming experience has run into a tar pit for me.

I suspect this is why a lot of factions are still using floor safes for day to day business.

[Repth]

already planned, nixing faction communication ap costs was the very minor version of what i was actually after

the ap costs may not be 0 when your fort is compromised though

Was building up the courage to post this.

+1 to no AP to take in / out of faction safe and footlocker

+1 to there being an AP cost when the ward is down.

Going from the frantic and free back and forth of item exchange in pseudoforts to the 1ap in, 1ap out of faction safes / footlockers literally feels like the gaming experience has run into a tar pit for me.

I suspect this is why a lot of factions are still using floor safes for day to day business.

Ooo cool I like that.

[Klapaucius]

To add a somewhat dissenting opinion: love the 0 AP floor safe and handing things back and forth. I like that it creates a low level of communication requirement (just 'I dropped some books on the floor' for instance) and promotes direct interactions between characters. The safe is a bit less personal. I quite like the current system, where some stuff goes in the safe and some stuff is passed back and forth or dropped on the ground for general consumption/sharing purposes.

The change will make giving things to people directly sort of redundant inside the SH.

I like how it means that the stuff on the floor is sort of up for grabs, too. If someone breaks into your faction, they can hoover up your current junk pile. It adds a little risk/reward for the efficiency. Free stuff is the best, and if you were using the floor safe you knew the risks.

ON THE OTHER hand retrieving a bunch of low value items from the safe is pretty unsatisfying at 1 AP a pop, so I do see some merit on the proposed change.

[Nayru]

originally way back the idea was some sort of (very painful) ui addition that'd essentially let you mass select a bunch of items to put in or take out, with ap per X weight to deal with the potion issue

problem was that immediately becomes >1 ap in regards to high weight items and differentiating a cutoff point if the maximum is 1 ap quickly becomes something of a nightmare to sort out

while tend to mind social things (50 instances of people in dev trying to get perfect chont information added to sense magic.......) i'm not all that favour in effectively forcing them, and it's (probably) better if one of the more interesting parts of the game (fac logistics + ensuing activities they enable) had less faff and pointless ap expenditures in the way

[MrFrank]

To add a somewhat dissenting opinion: love the 0 AP floor safe and handing things back and forth. I like that it creates a low level of communication requirement (just 'I dropped some books on the floor' for instance) and promotes direct interactions between characters. The safe is a bit less personal. I quite like the current system, where some stuff goes in the safe and some stuff is passed back and forth or dropped on the ground for general consumption/sharing purposes.

This is an interesting point, and especially the part about invading factions being able mop up any goods off the floor after/during a raid (makes things feel more invasive and dynamic) but I feel those could or rather should be added in some other way. I find the safe convenient and well safe way to toss stuff in with the knowledge that someone in the faction is going find it helpful and use it at some point. I don't know if it's common but I don't always get a response when asking if people need stuff enchanted, but with potions, FAKs and books people usually do take it out of the safe at some point, it just needs to be in there.

[sohdbrimks]

Couldn't 0ap taking from the safe allow people to steal everything from a faction in a single ap cycle?
I mean I'm sure nobody in this community would do that but we should still prevent stuff like this from happening just in case.

[Nayru]

1 ap taking from safe allows people to take an insane quantity of stuff from a faction in a single ap cycle

what really destroyed this is the removal of the on-demand 0 ap item delete aspect of drop item

but ye theoretically could, basically never happens in practice and if it did say hello to game-wide fac acc ban at best

+ probably an admin telling them where they hid the items

[cat]

A while back I had an idea for a SH upgrade: a SH "bin" that anyone can put stuff into or take from for no AP cost. Lieutenants/leaders have the ability to tip all items from the bin into the safe for a set chunk of AP.

- Bin saves ground items from floor zucc by timer, also from accidental target shooting
- What goes into the safe can be better sorted by throwing things out of the bin before tipping
- Discounts the overall cost of putting things into safe, especially if used efficiently/coordinating
- Bin size limit can be improved similar to safe size to make bin tipping more efficient
- Items left in the bin can be yoinked by initiates or raiders so there's a risk to leaving items in the bin unattended
- Attempting to tip weight beyond available safe space prevents the action (red error message, no AP cost)