Nexus Clash

Virgo the Holy Champion made a trip down to Purgatorio today.

Ineffable Sea cloak is active, granting Lesser Flight, but traversal into void is blocked.



Virgo swapped to Breeze cloak, gusted onto the void and swapped back to sea. No death occurred, but further movement was blocked.



So it's supposed to be just flight but without an ap discount, right? So it ought to allow traversal of void. I also tried the Basic cloak and it also didn't work. Did not try Burning.

SharkyNebula wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:57 pm ...

Ineffable Sea cloak is active, granting Lesser Flight, but traversal into void is blocked.

...

Virgo swapped to Breeze cloak, gusted onto the void and swapped back to sea. No death occurred, but further movement was blocked.

...

So it's supposed to be just flight but without an ap discount, right? So it ought to allow traversal of void. I also tried the Basic cloak and it also didn't work. Did not try Burning.

No, Lesser Flight is not like Flight but without the AP discount. Lesser Flight allows a character to seep through doors, avoid damage from terrain, and attack flying characters with close quarters attacks. It does not grant any ability to move over adjacent tiles like you were flying. It's very much like Levitate in this regard.

I think not dying over Void is probably within the scope of this skill, since you ignore the harmful effects of terrain, but I could be convinced otherwise, too. However, I think the skill is working as it was meant to work.

Liche wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 4:13 am

SharkyNebula wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:57 pm ...

Ineffable Sea cloak is active, granting Lesser Flight, but traversal into void is blocked.

...

Virgo swapped to Breeze cloak, gusted onto the void and swapped back to sea. No death occurred, but further movement was blocked.

...

So it's supposed to be just flight but without an ap discount, right? So it ought to allow traversal of void. I also tried the Basic cloak and it also didn't work. Did not try Burning.

No, Lesser Flight is not like Flight but without the AP discount. Lesser Flight allows a character to seep through doors, avoid damage from terrain, and attack flying characters with close quarters attacks. It does not grant any ability to move over adjacent tiles like you were flying. It's very much like Levitate in this regard.

I think not dying over Void is probably within the scope of this skill, since you ignore the harmful effects of terrain, but I could be convinced otherwise, too. However, I think the skill is working as it was meant to work.

Then why does gust work? Gust is just adding the MP move option - it makes no mention of improving the lesser flight capability.

also it makes the move buttons appear, usually characters that can't move onto void don't have the buttons

the wiki also has no status effect description for 'lesser flight', it just redirects to flight. wisp form describes 'lesser flight capability' as "Character gains lesser flight capability (can move over void, water, etc.) while Wisp Form is active."

This definitely puts me off, I do think the skill is working wrong. Even from a conceptual level, there's no reason levitation shouldn't let you move over void. Suppose the argument is that "Levitation has no altitude control", and the purgatorio islands are slightly off on the Z-axis from each other, so if you used lesser flight to go onto void you'd hit the side of an island. Well, the idea of lifting the close-combat restrictions ruins that argument by proving levitation has altitude control - you're literally walking into the sky to hit someone with a sword.

SharkyNebula wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 10:52 am

Liche wrote: ↑Fri Mar 24, 2023 4:13 am

SharkyNebula wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:57 pm ...

Ineffable Sea cloak is active, granting Lesser Flight, but traversal into void is blocked.

...

Virgo swapped to Breeze cloak, gusted onto the void and swapped back to sea. No death occurred, but further movement was blocked.

...

So it's supposed to be just flight but without an ap discount, right? So it ought to allow traversal of void. I also tried the Basic cloak and it also didn't work. Did not try Burning.

No, Lesser Flight is not like Flight but without the AP discount. Lesser Flight allows a character to seep through doors, avoid damage from terrain, and attack flying characters with close quarters attacks. It does not grant any ability to move over adjacent tiles like you were flying. It's very much like Levitate in this regard.

I think not dying over Void is probably within the scope of this skill, since you ignore the harmful effects of terrain, but I could be convinced otherwise, too. However, I think the skill is working as it was meant to work.

Then why does gust work? Gust is just adding the MP move option - it makes no mention of improving the lesser flight capability.

also it makes the move buttons appear, usually characters that can't move onto void don't have the buttons

the wiki also has no status effect description for 'lesser flight', it just redirects to flight. wisp form describes 'lesser flight capability' as "Character gains lesser flight capability (can move over void, water, etc.) while Wisp Form is active."

This definitely puts me off, I do think the skill is working wrong. Even from a conceptual level, there's no reason levitation shouldn't let you move over void. Suppose the argument is that "Levitation has no altitude control", and the purgatorio islands are slightly off on the Z-axis from each other, so if you used lesser flight to go onto void you'd hit the side of an island. Well, the idea of lifting the close-combat restrictions ruins that argument by proving levitation has altitude control - you're literally walking into the sky to hit someone with a sword.

I think Gust works because Gust is defined as letting you move from tile to tile; it's got a movement skill baked in. I believe Ineffable Sea doesn't give you movement options because it's defined that way: it helps you on the tiles you occupy and doesn't help you getting around. It's part of the basic Cloak, and more advanced Cloaks may add to it, or not.

The definition of "Lesser Flight" is problematic. There are at least three different definitions of that ability, and I think it comes down to multiple developers wanting to add different effects and all landing on the same terminology ("It's not quite real flight, so let's call it Lesser Flight.").

Those visible movement buttons while near Void seem to be a bug, I would hazard. I don't think you should be able to move there, so the buttons shouldn't be there.

All of this is to say, I don't think this is a bug. If you're not happy with how the Cloak is working I think a post in the Suggestions board asking for a change is absolutely worth it. Maybe it'll help push things to be better consolidated (Why is there a Levitation spell when characters have wings and potions of flight? There are no healing spells even though characters have potions of healing, regeneration, and skills.).

The "water" cloak not granting movement over void is not a bug. I've updated the wiki to specify this.