Instead of having to live forever with your misclick and/or poor life choices allow characters to retrain their skills and also give late game exp a meaning/purpose.
After hitting max level (I’m assuming that you hold onto your exp if you are unable to gain ranks) you can spend exp to refund skills.
Let’s start the bidding at… 1k exp for a 10cp skill up to 3k exp for a 90cp skill?
Skills: Spend EXP to refund skills
Re: Skills: Spend EXP to refund skills
Why limit the feature only to maxxed characters? Why punish poorly built T2s by forcing them to either reset or tediously continue levelling? I think this feature, if it is implemented at all, should be available to all characters, no matter their level or build. The cost of refund could even be dynamic, automatically adjusted to character's current level, to make the refund actually affordable for low levels.
My characters (sorted by IDs): Badziew, Tiger Fist, Pilgrim, Sentient Spellbook, a trojan cat.
Check my wiki profile for more information, including contact information.
Check my wiki profile for more information, including contact information.
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pyroshroom
- Posts: 71
- Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:52 am
Re: Skills: Spend EXP to refund skills
How about 50 exp / 1 CP refund across the board for the maxed characters? It makes it slightly more expensive than the CP/EXP awarded on reaching level 30 (which is currently 43.3 EXP / 1 CP).
If you allow this for T2's, it just extends their suffering in the T2 levels, since you would be subtracting the EXP they have and extending their stay in T2.
If the refund costs mean that they would delevel - would they just be de-leveled and lose that CP until they re-level up?
It would largely depend on the cost scale you want for the refund, but the high end would essentially be a limited reset - making them just de-level to reset the equivalent amount of CP for skills.
If you allow this for T2's, it just extends their suffering in the T2 levels, since you would be subtracting the EXP they have and extending their stay in T2.
If the refund costs mean that they would delevel - would they just be de-leveled and lose that CP until they re-level up?
It would largely depend on the cost scale you want for the refund, but the high end would essentially be a limited reset - making them just de-level to reset the equivalent amount of CP for skills.
Re: Skills: Spend EXP to refund skills
unlearning 3/3 archery into 3/3 melee for the char i reset (and gave up 3.3k xp on) would've been hell (imagine cutting the efficiency of your only xp gain while having to gain a ton of xp) but so is re-leveling (1477 now and that's with a lot of external assistance from a smithfriend)
i guess it's the most realistic bit i can see for 'the reset problem' in this +xp to progress era
preferably though it'd start out not particularly severe in t1, get a bit significant in t2 and get pretty dramatic by late t3
i imagine it like such
at any point you can designate a skill/spell (or the endpoint of a skill) to be unlearned, this'll make a note of such and all of your xp gain will be funneled into nixing that cp object until successful and then xp gain goes back to normal
how you account for scenarios like wanting to go from gun to bow in t1 when you only have 70 cp spent in t1 and no further possible cp to begin the transition (you're catvom and put all of your grind cp into t2+) is beyond me
generally though the xp req involved would be based on where the cp is located (t3 skill >>> t1 skill costs because of the xp per level in t3 compared to t1) so swapping trees would be easier, swapping t3 innates would not
suppose keeping track of the amount of 'tier X' cp amounts you have and forcing people to 'fix their char' by acquiring 70 cp in t1 again before they can put cp into t2/t3 would sort out most of the issues anyway
i guess it's the most realistic bit i can see for 'the reset problem' in this +xp to progress era
preferably though it'd start out not particularly severe in t1, get a bit significant in t2 and get pretty dramatic by late t3
i imagine it like such
at any point you can designate a skill/spell (or the endpoint of a skill) to be unlearned, this'll make a note of such and all of your xp gain will be funneled into nixing that cp object until successful and then xp gain goes back to normal
how you account for scenarios like wanting to go from gun to bow in t1 when you only have 70 cp spent in t1 and no further possible cp to begin the transition (you're catvom and put all of your grind cp into t2+) is beyond me
generally though the xp req involved would be based on where the cp is located (t3 skill >>> t1 skill costs because of the xp per level in t3 compared to t1) so swapping trees would be easier, swapping t3 innates would not
suppose keeping track of the amount of 'tier X' cp amounts you have and forcing people to 'fix their char' by acquiring 70 cp in t1 again before they can put cp into t2/t3 would sort out most of the issues anyway
- You say, "Oh my me." (2022-01-30 03:41:07).
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MrFrank
- Posts: 95
- Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:13 am
- Location: Lambda, a Subterranean Storage Facility, Mount Altrea Site
Re: Skills: Spend EXP to refund skills
Support, being completely locked into a skill is too hard a punishment for fringe situations where you misclick or misundertand a skill before buying. It happens, I've done it before as well.
Nayru's suggestion is interesting because that way you'll have to work off the "EXP debt" before refunding the skill. I'd have just given it 1000/2000/3000 xp cost per base T1/T2/T3 skill.
Nayru's suggestion is interesting because that way you'll have to work off the "EXP debt" before refunding the skill. I'd have just given it 1000/2000/3000 xp cost per base T1/T2/T3 skill.
|| glueman / 11968 || manco / 11970 || johnquail / 11976 || drcoomer / 12377 || a.r.boretum / 12546 || gnomechompski / 13303 ||
Re: Skills: Spend EXP to refund skills
I wasn’t sure what devs/admins would go for so I started with something fairly conservative (and probably(?) not too bad to implement).
But definitely like/agree with some of the ideas here.
You probably should be allowed to swap between “funneling” and “leveling” (if that’s the way it’s done) and swap the skill that is being “funnelled”. But no transfer of funnelled exp into real exp because people will “store” exp to look lower level.
For a deleveling scheme with scaling… maybe something that might work is you get a “forget skill” button on the skills page which costs you levels proportional to CP. It always costs 1 level minimum, rounded up. So for example at T3 forgetting a 90cp skill costs you 3 levels. At T2 forgetting a 30cp skill costs you 2 levels and you get a 10cp refund. (Though maybe we can give T1s a bit of a break here and make every skill cost 1 level to forget, so you can give up 3 levels to reset your weapon tree which seems ok? Still a bit of a grind but a lot less painful than resetting).
What “1 level” means is the exp equivalent of the last level/rank you gained along with your actual level/rank decreasing by 1. “2 levels” is the exp equivalent of the last two levels/ranks you gained. Your new exp total may mean that you immediately regain your last level/rank once you do any action that gains exp (similar to what happened when the new exp curve came out).
Edit: I like scaling based on current level/cp cost rather than “skill tier” otherwise it’s either too expensive for T1s or too cheap for T3s and get stuff like T3s swapping in and out hide/dodge or doing hot swaps of the smithing trees.
Edit2: Might be wonkiness here with deleveling across the level 10/20 thresholds so maybe don’t allow that.
But definitely like/agree with some of the ideas here.
You probably should be allowed to swap between “funneling” and “leveling” (if that’s the way it’s done) and swap the skill that is being “funnelled”. But no transfer of funnelled exp into real exp because people will “store” exp to look lower level.
For a deleveling scheme with scaling… maybe something that might work is you get a “forget skill” button on the skills page which costs you levels proportional to CP. It always costs 1 level minimum, rounded up. So for example at T3 forgetting a 90cp skill costs you 3 levels. At T2 forgetting a 30cp skill costs you 2 levels and you get a 10cp refund. (Though maybe we can give T1s a bit of a break here and make every skill cost 1 level to forget, so you can give up 3 levels to reset your weapon tree which seems ok? Still a bit of a grind but a lot less painful than resetting).
What “1 level” means is the exp equivalent of the last level/rank you gained along with your actual level/rank decreasing by 1. “2 levels” is the exp equivalent of the last two levels/ranks you gained. Your new exp total may mean that you immediately regain your last level/rank once you do any action that gains exp (similar to what happened when the new exp curve came out).
Edit: I like scaling based on current level/cp cost rather than “skill tier” otherwise it’s either too expensive for T1s or too cheap for T3s and get stuff like T3s swapping in and out hide/dodge or doing hot swaps of the smithing trees.
Edit2: Might be wonkiness here with deleveling across the level 10/20 thresholds so maybe don’t allow that.
Re: Skills: Spend EXP to refund skills
I support this idea but honestly we should go even further and give every character a free reset that maintains their CP and level.
Cap it at level 20 if necessary, since people have usually learned what they want to do and the mistakes they’ve made by then, but the current system is woefully unfriendly to new players. It’s much too high a learning curve that locks you in to skills that may have nothing to do with each other or are poor purchases for your later plans.
We should find ways to move away from being a game people have to do heavy research into before picking up and playing.
Cap it at level 20 if necessary, since people have usually learned what they want to do and the mistakes they’ve made by then, but the current system is woefully unfriendly to new players. It’s much too high a learning curve that locks you in to skills that may have nothing to do with each other or are poor purchases for your later plans.
We should find ways to move away from being a game people have to do heavy research into before picking up and playing.
Re: Skills: Spend EXP to refund skills
I've never seen a game with in depth build decisions like this one that wasn't improved by the introduction of a retraining mechanic of some sort, so I support, in whatever form it takes.
Nayru's take on it seemed like a good one to me, that way you can't just horde 5 gajillion EXP all breath and then play 6 different builds over the course of a week.
Nayru's take on it seemed like a good one to me, that way you can't just horde 5 gajillion EXP all breath and then play 6 different builds over the course of a week.
Re: Skills: Spend EXP to refund skills
Honestly I think if you build enough exp to go 6 builds in a week… why not?
You get to feel like a mad scientist for a week and it’s not repeatable due to costs so you can’t do long-term oppression strats. Seems like mostly a win to me.
You get to feel like a mad scientist for a week and it’s not repeatable due to costs so you can’t do long-term oppression strats. Seems like mostly a win to me.
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MrFrank
- Posts: 95
- Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:13 am
- Location: Lambda, a Subterranean Storage Facility, Mount Altrea Site
Re: Skills: Spend EXP to refund skills
Kinda agree with this, could even limit the number of skills refunded per day/week if it really got out of hand but honestly having a straightforward way to just undo bad choices is a really big positive that shouldn't really have a lot of unnecessary limitations placed on it. Key word being unnecessary of course, it's beyond me to imagine any potential problems or exploits that could result from it so barring those refunding skills should be simple imo.
|| glueman / 11968 || manco / 11970 || johnquail / 11976 || drcoomer / 12377 || a.r.boretum / 12546 || gnomechompski / 13303 ||