WYRM MASTERS

[Skouth]

STREAM OF CONSCIOUSNESS THREAD

THE PROBLEM:
Wyrm Master pets suck.
They're expensive and weak for what they do.
Let's look what should be considered the "baseline" pet for the WM, the Hellhound. With Master of the Pack it's a 9 (bad type) damage 70% attack with 90 HP and 35 MP pet, for a summon cost of 20 MP. It sometimes does 11 damage, which is nice, I guess.
Compare that to the Judgemaster, the baseline pet for the LS. With Soldiers of Might (and Caretaker's Gift, I guess) you get a 12 (!!!) damage 65% attack with 80 HP and 50 (!!) MP pet, for a summon cost of 15 MP.
I should just stop right here and clamor for number adjustments for the hounds, but it gets worse. Across the board, WM pets are worse than LS pets. Imps vs. Sprites? I GUESS imps help you survive longer if you summon a load of them, but at 15 MP per imp that's a steep cost for a meatshield that'll absorb one, at best two hits. Meanwhile sprites are sprites, I shouldn't need to even talk about them, and so I won't. Tentacles are good for a meme and that's about it, while Foo Lions, while not the stonewalling menaces they used to be, have the stat block of titans and pop a free slowing glyph whenever a raid's happening. Wyrms vs Wheels, I'd say it's pretty even, even favoring the Wyrm. Of course, if a Wheel gets a kill (even if it is a pet kill) it gets to rejuvenate itself, while the Wyrm just doesn't. I'll still rate the Wyrm higher because god knows WM needs any W they can scrounge lmao.
Now the thing is, one might say WM pets NEED to be subpar compared to LS pets because they can mutate and reach higher power ceilings, but is that even true?
Let's look at the humble Hellhound once more. With two mutations (40 MP piled on top of the 20 MP summon cost) it can become a 13 (still bad, arguably worse type) damage 70% attack pet. For 60 (sixty (LX (sessenta) ) ) MP! To be slightly better than a 15 MP Judgemaster!
MUTATIONS ARE HORRIBLE. They are EXTREMELY expensive for what they do and basically, the economy just doesn't work, for the MP cost of having a slightly better Judgemaster I could get THREE HOUNDS.

THE SOLUTION(s):
pick one, some, all. I'm even going to parse it neatly, no need to thank me.

*MUTATIONS*
1 - Mutating your own pets is now cheaper. Like way fucking cheaper. Like 5 or 10 MP cheap.
2 - Pet kills earns the pet a "half mutation". So if you have mutagenic touch you get 0.5 mutation (meaning that pet would have to kill 2 pets to gain a random mutation), mutagenic touch + something else gets it a full mutation and the three skills, 1.5 mutation (so one mutation on kill, and if it gets another it gets another two mutations)
2.1 -- Actually nevermind that one, get THIS. It's probably easier to code. On player kills YOU get 1-2-3 (based on skills bought) "mutation juice" and pet kills give YOU 0.33-0.66-1 mutation juice. You can use these points to mutate your pets for free (1 point for a random mutation, 2 for a targeted) or someone else's pet with a discount
3 - Mutating pets rejuvenates them, making it both faster to get a petwall going and easier to get your petwall to acceptable levels of strength
3.1 -- Mutation-on-kill rejuvenates (or half rejuvenates) pets. I don't like this one because it steps on the toes of other pets whose strength IS rejuvenating on kills
4 - Stronger mutation effects. Instead of +2 damage, fuck it, make it +4 (I think this is too powerful)
4.1 -- Maybe "capstone mutations"? So like, you get Ferocious, Nether and Sadistic and you can give your pet a really powerful mutation that, idk, makes it regenerate health on hit and deal more damage? Obviously only one capstone mutation per pet.
5 - Impossible to code but really cool lore wise, pit your pets against each other, winner emerges rejuvenated and with a shitload of mutations.
5.1 -- Easier to code but ties into the "mutation juice" suggestion, sacrifice pets based on their summon cost for mutation juice? Optimal strat would be to run the pet ragged and then recycle it into juice. Thematically fits I guess.
6 - SKILLS! these suggestions above can be put into (mutually exclusive) skills! Like say it goes like this: Mutagenic Touch > Nether Grafting OR Quick Mutations >> (Cheaper targeted mutations but less mutations on kills) OR (MORE CHAOS HAHAHA ROLL THE DICE and lets your pets mutate randomly over time/on pet kills/on kills/whatever). Basically the difference between a methodical evil scientist and a "fuck it just throw shit at the wall and see what sticks" kinda scientist

*HELLHOUNDS*
1 - Just make em stronger and drop the mutation angle. I don't like this but you know.
2 - P A C K T A C T I C S, the terror of many a D&D adventurer. Have a single hellhound be weak but the more hounds you have in a pack, the stronger they get (damage and attack-wise), to a cap obviously.
3 - Some dominate stygian fauna ability would be nice, I guess.

*IMPS*
1 - Brother's Bond for imps man who the hell has the time, mana and AP to be summoning shit pets like that one by one.
2 - 90 cp skill that makes imps super accurate (say, 85% accuracy?) and avoid auras. Why? summon a cloud of imps, have a DO agony curse someone, ??? easiest clear of my life. I'd buy that any day of the week
3 - fuck it pack tactics for everyone, make it a skill or something

*TENTACLES*
1 - buy a better skill
2 - no seriously, maybe make them hidden? Is that even possible?
3 - pincered debuff to prevent escapees? A different type of tentacle that doesn't deal damage but pincers?

*WYRMS*
wyrms are fine I guess

I THINK THIS IS IT ILL ADD MORE IF I REMEMBER/CARE ABOUT

[sohdbrimks]

Ok I was just going to post my suggestion, but checked the wiki first to make sure I don't say anything dumb, AND TURNS OUT MY SUGGESTION ALREADY EXISTS!
I think Quick Mutations should be the default mutation skill (perhaps with a different name) with some slight improvements as child skills. Example:

- Mutations (30cp): summoned pets have 1 random mutation
-- improved mutation (60cp): summoned pets have 80% chance of having 2 mutations, 20% chance of having 3 mutations
-- babysitting mutation (60cp): rejuvenated pets gain 1 random mutation

I actually don't like that last suggestion very much because I don't want to encourage WMs to improve their pets, I think their playstyle should be geared towards assaulting a SH with no pets, DHing everyone and summoning a bunch of hellhounds on the spot, that's how demons are supposed to play imo. But if we need to have that kind of thing, at least make it easier.

[Riss]

I actually don't like that last suggestion very much because I don't want to encourage WMs to improve their pets, I think their playstyle should be geared towards assaulting a SH with no pets, DHing everyone and summoning a bunch of hellhounds on the spot, that's how demons are supposed to play imo. But if we need to have that kind of thing, at least make it easier.

Considering that in the game a big part of an SH's defense depends on PMs, I think it would be nice if WM had a good retaliate capability too.

[Skouth]

OH RIGHT I JUST REMEMBERED WYRMS ARE NOT FINE
let them get the gosh darn +2 damage and death damage type mutation
wtf